query20

#$&*

course Mth 271

11/12 830p

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Question: `q 2b 7th edition 2.7.16 (was 2.7.10) dy/dx at (2,1) if x^2-y^3=3

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Your solution:

derivative of x^2 2x

derivative of y^3 3y^2

2x/3y^2 at (2,1) 2(2)/3(1)^2 = 4/3

confidence rating #$&*:

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Given Solution:

`a The derivative of x^2 with respect to x is 2 x.

The derivative of y^3 with respect to x is 3 y^2 dy/dx. You can see this by realizing that since y is implicitly a function of x, y^3 is a composite function: inner function is y(x), outer function f(z) = z^3. So the derivative is y'(x) * 3 * f(y(x)) = dy/dx * 3 * y^3.

So the derivative of the equation is

2 x - 3 y^3 dy/dx = 0, giving

3 y^2 dy/dx = 2 x so

dy/dx = 2 x / ( 3 y^2).

At (2,1), we have x = 2 and y = 1 so

dy/dx = 2 * 2 / (3 * 1^2) = 4/3. **

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Self-critique (if necessary):It seems so much simpler to take the derivative of the x term divided by the derivative of the y term, since that’s what you have before you substitute.

@&

That would work for this specific example, because one term is given only in terms of x and the other only in terms of y.

But it won't work unless that is the case.

There is no point in using a method that applies only in special cases, and no insight to be gained from doing so.

*@

I don’t understand this statement

So the derivative is y'(x) * 3 * f(y(x)) = dy/dx * 3 * y^3.

@&

The y^3 was a typo. It should have been y^2, and that should agree with your result.

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when you go back to 3y^2 to solve.

Also, I did not see where the =3 in the original equation factored into anything.

@&

The derivative of the constant term 3 is zero.

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The directions in the book stated that step was was to solve for y. I followed the steps in the book to solve on paper and came up with (4/3)^-4/3. I didn’t take time to type those steps because I knew it was wrong.

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Self-critique Rating:2

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Question: `q 3b 7th edition 2.7.28 (was 2.7.22) slope of x^2-y^3=0 at (1,1)

What is the desired slope and how did you get it?

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Your solution:

2x/3y^2 slope at (1,1)

2(1)/(3(1)^2 = 2/3

confidence rating #$&*:

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Given Solution:

`a The derivative of the equation is

2 x - 3 y^2 dy/dx = 0. Solving for dy/dx we get

dy/dx = 2x / (3 y^2).

At (-1,1) we have x = 1 and y = 1 so at this point

dy/dx = 2 * -1 / (3 * 1^2) = -2/3. **

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Self-critique (if necessary):

That was the last question that I left out on the previous problem. I did not see where the negative was used in arriving at the answer. It just seemed to disappear, but it didn’t here.

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Self-critique Rating:2

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Question: `q 6 7th edition 2.7.42 (was 2.7.36) p=`sqrt( (500-x)/(2x))

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Your solution:

[(500-x)/(2x)]= ^½

(½)[(500-x)/(2x)]^(-3/2)

confidence rating #$&*:

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Given Solution:

`a You could apply implicit differentiation to the present form, and that would work but it would be fairly messy.

You have lots of choices for valid ways to rewrite the equation but I would recommend squaring both sides and getting rid of denominators. You get

p^2 = (500-x) / (2x) so

2x p^2 = 500-x and

2x p^2 + x - 500 = 0.

You want dx/dp so take the derivative with respect to p:

2x * 2p + 2 dx/dp * p^2 + dx / dp = 0

(2 p^2 + 1) dx/dp = - 4 x p

dx / dp = -4 x p / (2p^2 + 1) **

STUDENT QUESTION:

could you explain that differiant I not sure what happens to the middle x

INSTRUCTOR RESPONSE

Remember how implicit differentiation works, with on variable being considered as a function of the other. In this case x is considered to be a function of p.

One way to see it:

if ' represents derivative with respect to p, then

(2 x p^2) ' = 2 ( x p^2) ' = 2 ( x ' p^2 + x * (p^2)' ) = 2 ( x ' p^2 + x * (2 p) ) = 2 x ' p^2 + 4 x p.

So the equation

2x p^2 + x - 500 = 0 gives us

(2 x p^2) ' + x ' + 0 = 0, or

2 x ' p^2 + 4 x p + x ' = 0.

If we use d/dp notation, this is

2 dx/dp + p^2 + dx/dp = 0.

Remember that the derivative is with respect to p, not x, so x ' is x ' = dx/dp, not x ' = 1 (as it would be if we were taking a derivative with respect to x).

Another way to notate it:

The equation is 2 x p^2 = 500 - x.

We take the derivative of both sides with respect to p. So the derivative of x is dx/dp. The derivative of p^2 with respect to p is just 2 p.

The derivative of x p^2 is, by the product rule,

derivative of x p^2 = (derivative of x) * p^2 + x * (derivative of p^2), which works out to

dx/dp * p^2 + x * (2 p).

Of course, that means that the derivative of 2 x p^2 is 2 ( dx/dp * p^2 + x * (2 p) ) = 2 dx/dp * p^2 + 4 x p.

So the derivative with respect to p of 2 x p^2 + x - 500 is

(2 dx/dp * p^2 + 4 x p) + dx/dp + 0 or just

(2 dx/dp * p^2 + 4 x p) + dx/dp,

and our equation is

2 dx/dp * p^2 + 4 x p + dx/dp = 0.

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Self-critique (if necessary): I really don’t understand just substituting dx/dp for the derivative instead of just finding the derivative. I read through the entire explanation and I don’t really understand it.

@&

In the given solution we put the equation into the form 2x p^2 + x - 500 = 0. In this form, implicit differentiation works fairly easiliy to find dx/dp.

Your solution was to find the derivative with of p with respect to x, which would be dp/dx.

In any case you did not find that derivative correctly. The derivative would involve the chain rule, and the derivative of the inner function (500 - 2) / (2x) would be somewhat messy. Even if you had found the correct derivative, you would not have found dx/dp.

*@

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#*&!

&#Good responses. See my notes and let me know if you have questions. &#